0001 L1TF - L1 Terminal Fault
0002 ========================
0003
0004 L1 Terminal Fault is a hardware vulnerability which allows unprivileged
0005 speculative access to data which is available in the Level 1 Data Cache
0006 when the page table entry controlling the virtual address, which is used
0007 for the access, has the Present bit cleared or other reserved bits set.
0008
0009 Affected processors
0010 -------------------
0011
0012 This vulnerability affects a wide range of Intel processors. The
0013 vulnerability is not present on:
0014
0015 - Processors from AMD, Centaur and other non Intel vendors
0016
0017 - Older processor models, where the CPU family is < 6
0018
0019 - A range of Intel ATOM processors (Cedarview, Cloverview, Lincroft,
0020 Penwell, Pineview, Silvermont, Airmont, Merrifield)
0021
0022 - The Intel XEON PHI family
0023
0024 - Intel processors which have the ARCH_CAP_RDCL_NO bit set in the
0025 IA32_ARCH_CAPABILITIES MSR. If the bit is set the CPU is not affected
0026 by the Meltdown vulnerability either. These CPUs should become
0027 available by end of 2018.
0028
0029 Whether a processor is affected or not can be read out from the L1TF
0030 vulnerability file in sysfs. See :ref:`l1tf_sys_info`.
0031
0032 Related CVEs
0033 ------------
0034
0035 The following CVE entries are related to the L1TF vulnerability:
0036
0037 ============= ================= ==============================
0038 CVE-2018-3615 L1 Terminal Fault SGX related aspects
0039 CVE-2018-3620 L1 Terminal Fault OS, SMM related aspects
0040 CVE-2018-3646 L1 Terminal Fault Virtualization related aspects
0041 ============= ================= ==============================
0042
0043 Problem
0044 -------
0045
0046 If an instruction accesses a virtual address for which the relevant page
0047 table entry (PTE) has the Present bit cleared or other reserved bits set,
0048 then speculative execution ignores the invalid PTE and loads the referenced
0049 data if it is present in the Level 1 Data Cache, as if the page referenced
0050 by the address bits in the PTE was still present and accessible.
0051
0052 While this is a purely speculative mechanism and the instruction will raise
0053 a page fault when it is retired eventually, the pure act of loading the
0054 data and making it available to other speculative instructions opens up the
0055 opportunity for side channel attacks to unprivileged malicious code,
0056 similar to the Meltdown attack.
0057
0058 While Meltdown breaks the user space to kernel space protection, L1TF
0059 allows to attack any physical memory address in the system and the attack
0060 works across all protection domains. It allows an attack of SGX and also
0061 works from inside virtual machines because the speculation bypasses the
0062 extended page table (EPT) protection mechanism.
0063
0064
0065 Attack scenarios
0066 ----------------
0067
0068 1. Malicious user space
0069 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0070
0071 Operating Systems store arbitrary information in the address bits of a
0072 PTE which is marked non present. This allows a malicious user space
0073 application to attack the physical memory to which these PTEs resolve.
0074 In some cases user-space can maliciously influence the information
0075 encoded in the address bits of the PTE, thus making attacks more
0076 deterministic and more practical.
0077
0078 The Linux kernel contains a mitigation for this attack vector, PTE
0079 inversion, which is permanently enabled and has no performance
0080 impact. The kernel ensures that the address bits of PTEs, which are not
0081 marked present, never point to cacheable physical memory space.
0082
0083 A system with an up to date kernel is protected against attacks from
0084 malicious user space applications.
0085
0086 2. Malicious guest in a virtual machine
0087 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0088
0089 The fact that L1TF breaks all domain protections allows malicious guest
0090 OSes, which can control the PTEs directly, and malicious guest user
0091 space applications, which run on an unprotected guest kernel lacking the
0092 PTE inversion mitigation for L1TF, to attack physical host memory.
0093
0094 A special aspect of L1TF in the context of virtualization is symmetric
0095 multi threading (SMT). The Intel implementation of SMT is called
0096 HyperThreading. The fact that Hyperthreads on the affected processors
0097 share the L1 Data Cache (L1D) is important for this. As the flaw allows
0098 only to attack data which is present in L1D, a malicious guest running
0099 on one Hyperthread can attack the data which is brought into the L1D by
0100 the context which runs on the sibling Hyperthread of the same physical
0101 core. This context can be host OS, host user space or a different guest.
0102
0103 If the processor does not support Extended Page Tables, the attack is
0104 only possible, when the hypervisor does not sanitize the content of the
0105 effective (shadow) page tables.
0106
0107 While solutions exist to mitigate these attack vectors fully, these
0108 mitigations are not enabled by default in the Linux kernel because they
0109 can affect performance significantly. The kernel provides several
0110 mechanisms which can be utilized to address the problem depending on the
0111 deployment scenario. The mitigations, their protection scope and impact
0112 are described in the next sections.
0113
0114 The default mitigations and the rationale for choosing them are explained
0115 at the end of this document. See :ref:`default_mitigations`.
0116
0117 .. _l1tf_sys_info:
0118
0119 L1TF system information
0120 -----------------------
0121
0122 The Linux kernel provides a sysfs interface to enumerate the current L1TF
0123 status of the system: whether the system is vulnerable, and which
0124 mitigations are active. The relevant sysfs file is:
0125
0126 /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/l1tf
0127
0128 The possible values in this file are:
0129
0130 =========================== ===============================
0131 'Not affected' The processor is not vulnerable
0132 'Mitigation: PTE Inversion' The host protection is active
0133 =========================== ===============================
0134
0135 If KVM/VMX is enabled and the processor is vulnerable then the following
0136 information is appended to the 'Mitigation: PTE Inversion' part:
0137
0138 - SMT status:
0139
0140 ===================== ================
0141 'VMX: SMT vulnerable' SMT is enabled
0142 'VMX: SMT disabled' SMT is disabled
0143 ===================== ================
0144
0145 - L1D Flush mode:
0146
0147 ================================ ====================================
0148 'L1D vulnerable' L1D flushing is disabled
0149
0150 'L1D conditional cache flushes' L1D flush is conditionally enabled
0151
0152 'L1D cache flushes' L1D flush is unconditionally enabled
0153 ================================ ====================================
0154
0155 The resulting grade of protection is discussed in the following sections.
0156
0157
0158 Host mitigation mechanism
0159 -------------------------
0160
0161 The kernel is unconditionally protected against L1TF attacks from malicious
0162 user space running on the host.
0163
0164
0165 Guest mitigation mechanisms
0166 ---------------------------
0167
0168 .. _l1d_flush:
0169
0170 1. L1D flush on VMENTER
0171 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0172
0173 To make sure that a guest cannot attack data which is present in the L1D
0174 the hypervisor flushes the L1D before entering the guest.
0175
0176 Flushing the L1D evicts not only the data which should not be accessed
0177 by a potentially malicious guest, it also flushes the guest
0178 data. Flushing the L1D has a performance impact as the processor has to
0179 bring the flushed guest data back into the L1D. Depending on the
0180 frequency of VMEXIT/VMENTER and the type of computations in the guest
0181 performance degradation in the range of 1% to 50% has been observed. For
0182 scenarios where guest VMEXIT/VMENTER are rare the performance impact is
0183 minimal. Virtio and mechanisms like posted interrupts are designed to
0184 confine the VMEXITs to a bare minimum, but specific configurations and
0185 application scenarios might still suffer from a high VMEXIT rate.
0186
0187 The kernel provides two L1D flush modes:
0188 - conditional ('cond')
0189 - unconditional ('always')
0190
0191 The conditional mode avoids L1D flushing after VMEXITs which execute
0192 only audited code paths before the corresponding VMENTER. These code
0193 paths have been verified that they cannot expose secrets or other
0194 interesting data to an attacker, but they can leak information about the
0195 address space layout of the hypervisor.
0196
0197 Unconditional mode flushes L1D on all VMENTER invocations and provides
0198 maximum protection. It has a higher overhead than the conditional
0199 mode. The overhead cannot be quantified correctly as it depends on the
0200 workload scenario and the resulting number of VMEXITs.
0201
0202 The general recommendation is to enable L1D flush on VMENTER. The kernel
0203 defaults to conditional mode on affected processors.
0204
0205 **Note**, that L1D flush does not prevent the SMT problem because the
0206 sibling thread will also bring back its data into the L1D which makes it
0207 attackable again.
0208
0209 L1D flush can be controlled by the administrator via the kernel command
0210 line and sysfs control files. See :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line`
0211 and :ref:`mitigation_control_kvm`.
0212
0213 .. _guest_confinement:
0214
0215 2. Guest VCPU confinement to dedicated physical cores
0216 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0217
0218 To address the SMT problem, it is possible to make a guest or a group of
0219 guests affine to one or more physical cores. The proper mechanism for
0220 that is to utilize exclusive cpusets to ensure that no other guest or
0221 host tasks can run on these cores.
0222
0223 If only a single guest or related guests run on sibling SMT threads on
0224 the same physical core then they can only attack their own memory and
0225 restricted parts of the host memory.
0226
0227 Host memory is attackable, when one of the sibling SMT threads runs in
0228 host OS (hypervisor) context and the other in guest context. The amount
0229 of valuable information from the host OS context depends on the context
0230 which the host OS executes, i.e. interrupts, soft interrupts and kernel
0231 threads. The amount of valuable data from these contexts cannot be
0232 declared as non-interesting for an attacker without deep inspection of
0233 the code.
0234
0235 **Note**, that assigning guests to a fixed set of physical cores affects
0236 the ability of the scheduler to do load balancing and might have
0237 negative effects on CPU utilization depending on the hosting
0238 scenario. Disabling SMT might be a viable alternative for particular
0239 scenarios.
0240
0241 For further information about confining guests to a single or to a group
0242 of cores consult the cpusets documentation:
0243
0244 https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/cgroup-v1/cpusets.rst
0245
0246 .. _interrupt_isolation:
0247
0248 3. Interrupt affinity
0249 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0250
0251 Interrupts can be made affine to logical CPUs. This is not universally
0252 true because there are types of interrupts which are truly per CPU
0253 interrupts, e.g. the local timer interrupt. Aside of that multi queue
0254 devices affine their interrupts to single CPUs or groups of CPUs per
0255 queue without allowing the administrator to control the affinities.
0256
0257 Moving the interrupts, which can be affinity controlled, away from CPUs
0258 which run untrusted guests, reduces the attack vector space.
0259
0260 Whether the interrupts with are affine to CPUs, which run untrusted
0261 guests, provide interesting data for an attacker depends on the system
0262 configuration and the scenarios which run on the system. While for some
0263 of the interrupts it can be assumed that they won't expose interesting
0264 information beyond exposing hints about the host OS memory layout, there
0265 is no way to make general assumptions.
0266
0267 Interrupt affinity can be controlled by the administrator via the
0268 /proc/irq/$NR/smp_affinity[_list] files. Limited documentation is
0269 available at:
0270
0271 https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/core-api/irq/irq-affinity.rst
0272
0273 .. _smt_control:
0274
0275 4. SMT control
0276 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0277
0278 To prevent the SMT issues of L1TF it might be necessary to disable SMT
0279 completely. Disabling SMT can have a significant performance impact, but
0280 the impact depends on the hosting scenario and the type of workloads.
0281 The impact of disabling SMT needs also to be weighted against the impact
0282 of other mitigation solutions like confining guests to dedicated cores.
0283
0284 The kernel provides a sysfs interface to retrieve the status of SMT and
0285 to control it. It also provides a kernel command line interface to
0286 control SMT.
0287
0288 The kernel command line interface consists of the following options:
0289
0290 =========== ==========================================================
0291 nosmt Affects the bring up of the secondary CPUs during boot. The
0292 kernel tries to bring all present CPUs online during the
0293 boot process. "nosmt" makes sure that from each physical
0294 core only one - the so called primary (hyper) thread is
0295 activated. Due to a design flaw of Intel processors related
0296 to Machine Check Exceptions the non primary siblings have
0297 to be brought up at least partially and are then shut down
0298 again. "nosmt" can be undone via the sysfs interface.
0299
0300 nosmt=force Has the same effect as "nosmt" but it does not allow to
0301 undo the SMT disable via the sysfs interface.
0302 =========== ==========================================================
0303
0304 The sysfs interface provides two files:
0305
0306 - /sys/devices/system/cpu/smt/control
0307 - /sys/devices/system/cpu/smt/active
0308
0309 /sys/devices/system/cpu/smt/control:
0310
0311 This file allows to read out the SMT control state and provides the
0312 ability to disable or (re)enable SMT. The possible states are:
0313
0314 ============== ===================================================
0315 on SMT is supported by the CPU and enabled. All
0316 logical CPUs can be onlined and offlined without
0317 restrictions.
0318
0319 off SMT is supported by the CPU and disabled. Only
0320 the so called primary SMT threads can be onlined
0321 and offlined without restrictions. An attempt to
0322 online a non-primary sibling is rejected
0323
0324 forceoff Same as 'off' but the state cannot be controlled.
0325 Attempts to write to the control file are rejected.
0326
0327 notsupported The processor does not support SMT. It's therefore
0328 not affected by the SMT implications of L1TF.
0329 Attempts to write to the control file are rejected.
0330 ============== ===================================================
0331
0332 The possible states which can be written into this file to control SMT
0333 state are:
0334
0335 - on
0336 - off
0337 - forceoff
0338
0339 /sys/devices/system/cpu/smt/active:
0340
0341 This file reports whether SMT is enabled and active, i.e. if on any
0342 physical core two or more sibling threads are online.
0343
0344 SMT control is also possible at boot time via the l1tf kernel command
0345 line parameter in combination with L1D flush control. See
0346 :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line`.
0347
0348 5. Disabling EPT
0349 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0350
0351 Disabling EPT for virtual machines provides full mitigation for L1TF even
0352 with SMT enabled, because the effective page tables for guests are
0353 managed and sanitized by the hypervisor. Though disabling EPT has a
0354 significant performance impact especially when the Meltdown mitigation
0355 KPTI is enabled.
0356
0357 EPT can be disabled in the hypervisor via the 'kvm-intel.ept' parameter.
0358
0359 There is ongoing research and development for new mitigation mechanisms to
0360 address the performance impact of disabling SMT or EPT.
0361
0362 .. _mitigation_control_command_line:
0363
0364 Mitigation control on the kernel command line
0365 ---------------------------------------------
0366
0367 The kernel command line allows to control the L1TF mitigations at boot
0368 time with the option "l1tf=". The valid arguments for this option are:
0369
0370 ============ =============================================================
0371 full Provides all available mitigations for the L1TF
0372 vulnerability. Disables SMT and enables all mitigations in
0373 the hypervisors, i.e. unconditional L1D flushing
0374
0375 SMT control and L1D flush control via the sysfs interface
0376 is still possible after boot. Hypervisors will issue a
0377 warning when the first VM is started in a potentially
0378 insecure configuration, i.e. SMT enabled or L1D flush
0379 disabled.
0380
0381 full,force Same as 'full', but disables SMT and L1D flush runtime
0382 control. Implies the 'nosmt=force' command line option.
0383 (i.e. sysfs control of SMT is disabled.)
0384
0385 flush Leaves SMT enabled and enables the default hypervisor
0386 mitigation, i.e. conditional L1D flushing
0387
0388 SMT control and L1D flush control via the sysfs interface
0389 is still possible after boot. Hypervisors will issue a
0390 warning when the first VM is started in a potentially
0391 insecure configuration, i.e. SMT enabled or L1D flush
0392 disabled.
0393
0394 flush,nosmt Disables SMT and enables the default hypervisor mitigation,
0395 i.e. conditional L1D flushing.
0396
0397 SMT control and L1D flush control via the sysfs interface
0398 is still possible after boot. Hypervisors will issue a
0399 warning when the first VM is started in a potentially
0400 insecure configuration, i.e. SMT enabled or L1D flush
0401 disabled.
0402
0403 flush,nowarn Same as 'flush', but hypervisors will not warn when a VM is
0404 started in a potentially insecure configuration.
0405
0406 off Disables hypervisor mitigations and doesn't emit any
0407 warnings.
0408 It also drops the swap size and available RAM limit restrictions
0409 on both hypervisor and bare metal.
0410
0411 ============ =============================================================
0412
0413 The default is 'flush'. For details about L1D flushing see :ref:`l1d_flush`.
0414
0415
0416 .. _mitigation_control_kvm:
0417
0418 Mitigation control for KVM - module parameter
0419 -------------------------------------------------------------
0420
0421 The KVM hypervisor mitigation mechanism, flushing the L1D cache when
0422 entering a guest, can be controlled with a module parameter.
0423
0424 The option/parameter is "kvm-intel.vmentry_l1d_flush=". It takes the
0425 following arguments:
0426
0427 ============ ==============================================================
0428 always L1D cache flush on every VMENTER.
0429
0430 cond Flush L1D on VMENTER only when the code between VMEXIT and
0431 VMENTER can leak host memory which is considered
0432 interesting for an attacker. This still can leak host memory
0433 which allows e.g. to determine the hosts address space layout.
0434
0435 never Disables the mitigation
0436 ============ ==============================================================
0437
0438 The parameter can be provided on the kernel command line, as a module
0439 parameter when loading the modules and at runtime modified via the sysfs
0440 file:
0441
0442 /sys/module/kvm_intel/parameters/vmentry_l1d_flush
0443
0444 The default is 'cond'. If 'l1tf=full,force' is given on the kernel command
0445 line, then 'always' is enforced and the kvm-intel.vmentry_l1d_flush
0446 module parameter is ignored and writes to the sysfs file are rejected.
0447
0448 .. _mitigation_selection:
0449
0450 Mitigation selection guide
0451 --------------------------
0452
0453 1. No virtualization in use
0454 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0455
0456 The system is protected by the kernel unconditionally and no further
0457 action is required.
0458
0459 2. Virtualization with trusted guests
0460 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0461
0462 If the guest comes from a trusted source and the guest OS kernel is
0463 guaranteed to have the L1TF mitigations in place the system is fully
0464 protected against L1TF and no further action is required.
0465
0466 To avoid the overhead of the default L1D flushing on VMENTER the
0467 administrator can disable the flushing via the kernel command line and
0468 sysfs control files. See :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line` and
0469 :ref:`mitigation_control_kvm`.
0470
0471
0472 3. Virtualization with untrusted guests
0473 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0474
0475 3.1. SMT not supported or disabled
0476 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
0477
0478 If SMT is not supported by the processor or disabled in the BIOS or by
0479 the kernel, it's only required to enforce L1D flushing on VMENTER.
0480
0481 Conditional L1D flushing is the default behaviour and can be tuned. See
0482 :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line` and :ref:`mitigation_control_kvm`.
0483
0484 3.2. EPT not supported or disabled
0485 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
0486
0487 If EPT is not supported by the processor or disabled in the hypervisor,
0488 the system is fully protected. SMT can stay enabled and L1D flushing on
0489 VMENTER is not required.
0490
0491 EPT can be disabled in the hypervisor via the 'kvm-intel.ept' parameter.
0492
0493 3.3. SMT and EPT supported and active
0494 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
0495
0496 If SMT and EPT are supported and active then various degrees of
0497 mitigations can be employed:
0498
0499 - L1D flushing on VMENTER:
0500
0501 L1D flushing on VMENTER is the minimal protection requirement, but it
0502 is only potent in combination with other mitigation methods.
0503
0504 Conditional L1D flushing is the default behaviour and can be tuned. See
0505 :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line` and :ref:`mitigation_control_kvm`.
0506
0507 - Guest confinement:
0508
0509 Confinement of guests to a single or a group of physical cores which
0510 are not running any other processes, can reduce the attack surface
0511 significantly, but interrupts, soft interrupts and kernel threads can
0512 still expose valuable data to a potential attacker. See
0513 :ref:`guest_confinement`.
0514
0515 - Interrupt isolation:
0516
0517 Isolating the guest CPUs from interrupts can reduce the attack surface
0518 further, but still allows a malicious guest to explore a limited amount
0519 of host physical memory. This can at least be used to gain knowledge
0520 about the host address space layout. The interrupts which have a fixed
0521 affinity to the CPUs which run the untrusted guests can depending on
0522 the scenario still trigger soft interrupts and schedule kernel threads
0523 which might expose valuable information. See
0524 :ref:`interrupt_isolation`.
0525
0526 The above three mitigation methods combined can provide protection to a
0527 certain degree, but the risk of the remaining attack surface has to be
0528 carefully analyzed. For full protection the following methods are
0529 available:
0530
0531 - Disabling SMT:
0532
0533 Disabling SMT and enforcing the L1D flushing provides the maximum
0534 amount of protection. This mitigation is not depending on any of the
0535 above mitigation methods.
0536
0537 SMT control and L1D flushing can be tuned by the command line
0538 parameters 'nosmt', 'l1tf', 'kvm-intel.vmentry_l1d_flush' and at run
0539 time with the matching sysfs control files. See :ref:`smt_control`,
0540 :ref:`mitigation_control_command_line` and
0541 :ref:`mitigation_control_kvm`.
0542
0543 - Disabling EPT:
0544
0545 Disabling EPT provides the maximum amount of protection as well. It is
0546 not depending on any of the above mitigation methods. SMT can stay
0547 enabled and L1D flushing is not required, but the performance impact is
0548 significant.
0549
0550 EPT can be disabled in the hypervisor via the 'kvm-intel.ept'
0551 parameter.
0552
0553 3.4. Nested virtual machines
0554 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""
0555
0556 When nested virtualization is in use, three operating systems are involved:
0557 the bare metal hypervisor, the nested hypervisor and the nested virtual
0558 machine. VMENTER operations from the nested hypervisor into the nested
0559 guest will always be processed by the bare metal hypervisor. If KVM is the
0560 bare metal hypervisor it will:
0561
0562 - Flush the L1D cache on every switch from the nested hypervisor to the
0563 nested virtual machine, so that the nested hypervisor's secrets are not
0564 exposed to the nested virtual machine;
0565
0566 - Flush the L1D cache on every switch from the nested virtual machine to
0567 the nested hypervisor; this is a complex operation, and flushing the L1D
0568 cache avoids that the bare metal hypervisor's secrets are exposed to the
0569 nested virtual machine;
0570
0571 - Instruct the nested hypervisor to not perform any L1D cache flush. This
0572 is an optimization to avoid double L1D flushing.
0573
0574
0575 .. _default_mitigations:
0576
0577 Default mitigations
0578 -------------------
0579
0580 The kernel default mitigations for vulnerable processors are:
0581
0582 - PTE inversion to protect against malicious user space. This is done
0583 unconditionally and cannot be controlled. The swap storage is limited
0584 to ~16TB.
0585
0586 - L1D conditional flushing on VMENTER when EPT is enabled for
0587 a guest.
0588
0589 The kernel does not by default enforce the disabling of SMT, which leaves
0590 SMT systems vulnerable when running untrusted guests with EPT enabled.
0591
0592 The rationale for this choice is:
0593
0594 - Force disabling SMT can break existing setups, especially with
0595 unattended updates.
0596
0597 - If regular users run untrusted guests on their machine, then L1TF is
0598 just an add on to other malware which might be embedded in an untrusted
0599 guest, e.g. spam-bots or attacks on the local network.
0600
0601 There is no technical way to prevent a user from running untrusted code
0602 on their machines blindly.
0603
0604 - It's technically extremely unlikely and from today's knowledge even
0605 impossible that L1TF can be exploited via the most popular attack
0606 mechanisms like JavaScript because these mechanisms have no way to
0607 control PTEs. If this would be possible and not other mitigation would
0608 be possible, then the default might be different.
0609
0610 - The administrators of cloud and hosting setups have to carefully
0611 analyze the risk for their scenarios and make the appropriate
0612 mitigation choices, which might even vary across their deployed
0613 machines and also result in other changes of their overall setup.
0614 There is no way for the kernel to provide a sensible default for this
0615 kind of scenarios.